No degenerate art in my church, says German cleric
by Jura Watchmaker, 15 September 2007
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The Roman Catholic archbishop of Cologne has closely followed a TV talk show host in obliquely paying tribute to Nazi ideology.
Cardinal Joachim Meisner has caused a row in Germany by referring in a finely scripted sermon to degenerate (“entartete”) modern art that had become estranged from worship. The bishop prefers figurative icons and stained-glass windows featuring representations of caucasian christs nailed to trees, and virgins looking all meek and, well, virgin-like.
The difference between Dr Meisner and the now former TV celebrity Eva Herman is that the priest will no doubt retain the full support of his boss.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 15:21
…not that fucking kids could be considered degenerate of course — just filling them with the love of Christ.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 15:29
Eva Herman is decidedly creepy and has brought the accusation that she’s a Nazi sympathiser, or an airhead, or (probably) both on herself. Her glib, ahistorical bullshit deserves to be attacked, and attacked hard. However, going after the archbishop on the same grounds is taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. “Entartete” simply is the German word for “degenerate”, and has no necessary political connotations at all - though of course that doesn’t stop anyone from kicking up a fuss, since kicking up a fuss is fun and it helps to fill the papers on slow news days. Granted, “degenerate” is a naff word, for a naff concept, in any language, but that doesn’t make the Archbishop a Nazi, just an old fart. It’s not as if he’s calling for the destruction of all modern art, as the real Nazis did, he’s just objecting to having it in what he regards as “his” cathedral. He’s laughable, not frightening. If you’re going to go looking for Nazis, it might be more convincing if you took more care to dinstinguish among possible targets.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 16:07
“Entartete” simply is the German word for “degenerate”, and has no necessary political connotations at all
“Entartet” is *a* German word for “degenerate”. Others are “verkommen” and “degeneriert”. “Entartet” is not so common, and it has deep political connotations when combined with “Kunst”.
Words occasionally become debased through association with negative political and social situations. You can I am sure think of English words no longer spoken in polite company.
For what it is worth, I do not think the bishop is a Nazi, and neither does Francis (he sits next to me now). But this bastard priest knew exactly what he was saying, and the effect it would have.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 16:21
Well, SIAW, I think you’re being unkind to Francis and too forgiving of the clerical pissant.
The cleric is a German preaching in Germany - where there is an understandable sensitivity to things of this nature. There is (I’m pretty sure) a keen sense of the political connotations of the use of the word “Entartete” and this is evidenced by the “row in Germany” (whether media led or not). As Francis also points out, the ‘bish’s sermon was “a finely scripted” one and not just some throwaway unscripted slip of the toungue.
[edit: posted before i’d seen the above comment — possibly unnecessary duplication — oops]
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 18:51
Sorry, still not convinced.
Obviously there is more than one word for “degenerate” in German, and yes, the previous comment should have said “a”, not “the” - but so what? It’s simply pointless to expect someone of the Archbishop’s age and background to be as sensitive to nuances as you would like him to be. As for the idea that “this bastard priest knew exactly what he was saying, and the effect it would have”, that’s way over the top. It’s a dispute over a stained-glass window, for fuck’s sake, and the fact that the artist and his agent have friends in the media who are willing to manufacture a huge controversy over it (and thus safeguard the artist’s lucrative commission as well as the agent’s fee) doesn’t make it any less trivial. In the circumstances there’s no need to call the Archbishop a Nazi - you can just accuse him of “obliquely paying tribute to Nazi ideology”, and the effect is the same. In a word, hype (on both sides).
“I think you’re being unkind to Francis …”: You think *that* was unkind? How about this? The original post makes a lazy connection between things that are not connected (the Archbishop and the talk show host), applies sloppy and hysterical “analysis” to a matter that doesn’t bear the weight being put on it, and then sticks a silly headline on top. It’s *almost* good enough for Comment is Free. Or maybe Crooked Timber.
“… and too forgiving of the clerical pissant”: Not forgiving at all, just don’t give much of a toss either way. You’re taking him way too seriously, which is exactly what silly old farts like him would want you to do.
Meanwhile, if you’re looking for a serious example of the destructive effect of religious prejudices in a secular society, the current dispute in India over Lord Ram’s Bridge is a lot more important, and interesting, than this dispute over a window in Cologne. It’s just not quite so amenable to glib pontificating in the style of Simon Jenkins.
Love you all - have a good weekend.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 19:22
I think on balance I’m with SIAW on this one. Perhaps someone should do an analysis of all the words and terms used by the Nazis, then the rest of us can just use the ones left over, to be sure we are not “sympathising” with them by using any words they’ve previously used.
I suppose that just to make sure we are not inadvertantly lumped in with other fascist ideologies and blackshirted cunts, we should also do the same and carefully take out of circulation and common usage any terms and words used by Islamist and Communist twats as well.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 20:24
Which communist twats would those be? The ones you have just agreed with*, or the ones** who make up part of the contributors list at this website?
*While the term ‘communist’ is frequently employed to delineate various strands of Stalinism and Maoism, in this context I am using the term to refer to Marxian socialists.
**See above.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 20:26
Obviously there is more than one word for “degenerate” in German, and yes, the previous comment should have said “a”, not “the” - but so what?
Given the way that you attack others for their use of words, I must assume that you write with extreme care, and the “the” in your previous comment was deliberate. However, your refusal to accept that the term “entartete Kunst” is not acceptable in Germany shows that you do not have a good knowledge of the country, its language or culture.
And you do not understand the context of this affair with Meisner and his preaching. This is about more than a church window. The reports I have read today in the German press show that the bastard priest speaks about the fundamental nature of art, and condemns culture that is separate from worship. This is an aggressive statement of his religious “truth”, and an attack on secular culture. It may not be the most important news today, but it was worth a short comment.
The “connection” between Herman and Meisner was made to highlight that she was fired, and he is untouchable.
(Francis laughs from across the room).
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 21:36
Hakmao - “*While the term ‘communist’ is frequently employed to delineate various strands of Stalinism and Maoism, in this context I am using the term to refer to Marxian socialists.”
My apologies, forgive my sloppines. For family reasons too onerous to divulge here, I cannot but equate Communists to Stalinist murdering scum. It may not be fair or accurate, but it is sometimes that way with those with a more direct personal connection to tyranny than the armchair Marxist philosophers.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 21:39
“Degenerate Art” has precisely one meaning in art history. There aren’t any nuances to be had.
It’s possible that an aging archbishop might be ignorant of this, but if he is then he is hardly qualified to comment on cultural matters.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 22:30
Blimey, more pettyfogging liberal angst (sorry, Angst)…
“the term ‘entartete Kunst’ is not acceptable in Germany”: Who said it was, or should be? The issue is not what is “acceptable” in “polite society” (do you have any notion just how fucking pompous you sound?), it’s whether an old fart using the word is worth wasting space on. Do you base all your judgements on what the media tell you?
Oh wow, hold the front page, a priest has attacked secular culture - that’s never happened before, has it? Still, even those of us who lack “a good knowledge of the country, its language or culture” can guess that Germany will survive the vast impact of this “aggressive statement” more or less intact.
Next week on Popinjays: Francis Sedgemore tells us that bears shit in the woods, and then uses a sockpuppet to explain how everyone but him lacks the proper qualifications to comment on what bears do and why it’s really, really important.
Saturday 15 September 2007 at 23:23
Geejay — what a thick fucker he/it is.
Go to HP Sauce — they will like you there.