This is Yanks being political (when they aren’t killing Brits in Afghanistan)
by Will, 28 August 2007
Live From Congress: The Skull Fucking Bill Of 2007
Last night the families of the three soldiers killed by a US bomb dropped by an F15 aircraft last week in Afghanistan called on the Americans to release all available evidence on the latest friendly-fire incident for the inquest.
Private Robert “Fozzy” Foster, 19, was killed alongside Aaron McClure, 19, and John Thrumble, 21, all from 1st Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment, when a 500lb bomb was dropped from a US F15 aircraft.
Steve Foster, Private Foster’s uncle, told The Times last night: “As a family we want to find out what happened to Robert – why he was killed by an allied bomb. We can not see why the American pilot and those who provided the intelligence or gave commands from the ground cannot give evidence at the inquest. We need to know what happened so it can be prevented from happening again.
“We need to know if the pilot was feeling hyped up, if he was calm, what he had been told before the operation, what happened on the day. Why is it that our closest ally is refusing to provide the evidence that might explain what happened to Robert? I am sure that if an American was killed in a British attack then those involved would give evidence.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 0:09
Ooops forgot to include:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/07/14/graham-friendlyfire-report.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2002/04/19/reaction020419.html
I detect a pattern and I’m not a conspiracy nut (honest gov).
Let’s face it head on — the yanks are fucking shit at fighting wars. Utterly incompetent. Fuckwits, arseholes, wankers. The stupid cunts can’t even manage to organise a party of Labour in their own country for fuck’s sake. Tossers.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 2:01
This yank bashing is inspiring me to set up a drinksoakedwatch blog.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 3:17
John:
The Americans are fucking up in Afghanistan. They should fold Operation Enduring Freedom (or whatever it is they’re calling it now)into ISAF, and fall in, under direct NATO command,like everybody else.
And they should tell their president to stop thanking us for being there. We’re not doing it for him.
Cheers,
TG
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 5:59
Well said TG. Everything is not hunky-dory.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 7:04
Er… what’s wrong with some Yank-bashing? In moderation, that is. Everyone should be bashed periodically, it stimulates everyone’s blood supply to the old gray cells.
As for this “I am sure that if an American was killed in a British attack then those involved would give evidence.” - that’s crap, with all due respect. If there is one thing all the armies in the world do well, it is stonewalling.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 8:08
oh bollocks. This is a crap post juxtaposing real tragedy with an (admittedly funny) parody vid. Is the the tragic illuminated at all by the video? No. How many US formations were shot up by RAF typhoons in France 44? Quite alot, I would suspect, just like many british units were no doubt inadvertently pounded by US arty in the same campaign and in Korea to boot.
Whether the victim is one of the unnamed ones from pre media wars or whether its Robert Foster or whether its Pat Tillman it happens. I am in favor of as much openess and honesty as possible in these circumstances, ESPECIALLY when the victim is an ally as opposed to someone from ones own nation. Just common sense, really–you need to make an extra effort for allies.
But Military organizations are notorious for stonewalling everyone, as SnoopytheGoon correctly points out, and the Pentagon has been horrible at dealing with US on US friendly fire incidents as well, so implying some sort of unique animus here seems off base. And I am not sure that if harriers ran amok on a marine convoy the result would be much different.
As for the initial comment follow up from Will, I will only say that sweeping generalizations from armchair warriors in the US about UK military performance based on the Basra pullout has been one of the more disgusting memes in the blogsphere recently. Aping it from your side is not really any better. If you had said that the US was consistently crap at counterinsurgency and had a thoughtful post to back it up, then fair comment. But you went with a shock headline, a crap video, and invective. Not much better then powerline, frankly.
Wouldn’t it have been a better way to honour the victims to make an intelligent set of points about, say, the failure of the US to share identification technology with NATO allies on the pentagon’s part and how it may have contributed rather than dipping to this level?
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 9:44
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/29/ninquest29.xml
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6882341,00.html
“How many US formations were shot up by RAF typhoons in France 44?” — this is not 1944 and Afghanistan is not the second world war or Korea so cut it with the stupid fucking analogies. I think technology has moved on a little since then.
“Military organizations are notorious for stonewalling everyone”…so that’s okay then. Best shut up about it all and just not mention anything…please go and fuck yourself.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 9:46
A criticism of the routine US refusal to have its service personnel give evidence in foreign civilian courts and inquiries would have been justified, but not this, Will.
The yanks are “fucking shit at fighting wars” are they? Their tendency to call in heavy duty air support when dealing with the odd myopic sniper holed up in a building troubles people of my acquaintance who know about these things. But the Americans are doing more actual fighting than other coalition members, and I’m not sure how our performance would compare if we were contributing as much as them.
Let’s have a look at British friendly fire incidents in living memory. During the Falklands war I recall there being a hour-long firefight between two companies of 3 Para, which resulted in many casualties. An hour long! Again in the Falklands, different branches of our elite special forces were want to have a pop at each other on occasion. Perhaps others could provide examples of the RAF screwing up in more recent conflicts.
Otherwise, I agree with tg and girondistnyc. Those of us who wouldn’t know one end of an M4 rifle or 500lb bomb from the other should be careful when it comes to pronouncing on complex events filtered through brief news reports and emotive reactions.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 10:29
See:
Geoffrey Regan. Great Military Disasters: A Historical Survey of Military Incompetence (1988) and several other similar books by him.
‘Twas always thus so.
Wednesday 29 August 2007 at 14:29
Will - I would chalk up your intemperate post and responses to (understandable) anger but for the fact you appended a comedy video. And would be more willing to go fuck myself if you hadn’t completely ignored the fact I clearly criticized the Pentagon’s behavior and indicated that an intelligent post critiquing US behavior precisely on the grounds that ID’ing technology “has moved on a little since then”. Pity you can’t write one, then. Also odd that you attacked my use of historical analogies in the first place as your first post was explicitly a historical one–that the US was always bad at fighting wars.
As far as the “your army is crap” line in historical argument, I’d refer to Millet and Murray’s series on military effectiveness. As I recall from school, they argued neither the Brits nor the Americans get universally high grades when compared to, say, the Germans or Russians. And to Max Hastings in the recent Armageddon, who makes precisely the same point but also makes it clear that this is a product of intrinsically unmilitaristic democracies and how theymobilize for, and are constrained in fighting, wars. If it were ever thus, it may not be a uniquely US characteristic and it may not be something we would want to change.